How the salon industry has changed over the last 20 years with Devon Whitmer. Part 1.

In this weeks episode Devon and I compare and discuss what the beauty industry was like 20 years ago in comparison to the beauty industry currently.

Devon gives us an inside look at her beauty journey, offers tips for younger stylists and talks about how much the industry has changed over the last 20 years.

The good, the not so good and everything in-between. 

Thank you so much for being here! 

Keep up with Daniel and West Oak Salon.

Daniel's Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/daniel_does_my_hair?igsh=MTZ2dGNoMmw0eTN4ZA==

Emily's Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/emilypaszke?igsh=MXNidnJrN2p5ZTU1OA==

West Oak Salon's Instagram:

https://instagram.com/westoaksalon?igish=bXI0Mnk0MDI1ajhu 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You are listening to Rooted at West Oak, a podcast for stylists, salon owners, and beauty lovers, from hair color and extensions to business growth and real salon life. This is where it all starts. Hello everybody, and welcome back to the next episode of the Rooted at West Oak Podcast with me, Daniel Staffel. You guys know I am one of the owners at West Oak Salon here in Canal Winchester, Ohio. And today we have a really special episode because we have Devin with us. Devin is a stylist at my salon. She's a level three stylist, and she has been in the industry for even longer than I have. So it's very exciting to have her. Today we're gonna discuss a really fun topic that both her and I think will be great for not just current hairdressers, but hairdressers who have been in the industry for a while, or brand new hairdressers who have just walked into the industry. We're gonna be discussing what the industry was like when she started back in 2007.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

No, um, I started in 2004.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. So this will be really great because we'll be able to see or hear about what the industry was like. So I guess where we should start is is we should start with what like originally got you interested in beauty and going into beauty school in 2003, and then what was the industry like when you were first walking into it?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Okay. So I would say that I have always had an interest in the industry. I remember when I was a little girl, like I always like wanted to play with my friends' hair. I was always messing with my doll heads, like my Barbie dolls and other dolls. Um, and I always had a huge fascination with long hair. And when I was little, I called it big hair.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Um my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

And I would tell my mom, like, mom, I want to play with big hair all the time. I want to do big hair when I grow up. And my papa actually um was a barber. Um, so I grew up around that with him. He owned his own barber shop for 40 plus years. I remember going in the summers to his barbershop with him and I'd sweep up hair and I'd listen to him and his his, you know, customers talking. And I just I found that fascinating, you know, to build that connection with people. And he had men who he literally cut their hair for 40 plus years. Um, so he taught me how to do men's cuts when I was in cosmetology school. Um, and oddly enough, I wanted to do it in high school. And when I signed up for the career center, I was silly and I put that I wanted to do computer graphics first over cosmetology.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

And then when I realized, like, oh wait, I don't really want to do this, cosmetology was full. So I'm like, okay, now I have to do this. Um, and I actually liked that, but I went to college for a semester after high school. I hated it. And a friend that I worked with at the time um in a restaurant, she was like, I think I want to go to cosmetology school. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go with you. And so, you know, I got a little bit later start than what I wanted, but I kind of found my way back to it eventually. And so I started it in 2003 in COS school. I graduated in 04 when I was 21. And so yeah, it's just something that I've always like had a passion for and always knew that I wanted to be a part of.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

So that's so cool. I feel like um, even though you did say that you started after trying college for a little while, I feel like you said 21 is when you started.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah, yeah, I was 20. I yeah, I started at 20, graduated at 21.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So I feel like you still were fairly young though. I feel like graduating from beauty school. So take us back to 2004. You are 21 years old and you just graduated from beauty school.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

What was the vibe? What was the going on? What was the industry like?

SPEAKER_02 3:52

So when I started, I will say I was very fortunate. I got a job pretty quickly at the salon that I interned at while I was in school. Okay. And they were, I would say, kind of like not super high-end salon, but not your like great clips, Saturdays type. Um uh it was located in Grandview, Ohio, which if you're from Ohio, you kind of know that area. Um, so a nicer part of town. And they were very big in color, but it was very like one process color, maybe a few highlights. Pixie cuts were a huge thing back in the early 2000s. Like if you remember like Halle Berry back in the day with her pixie, like everybody wanted that. I even had a pixie at one point. And so that's where I really learned how to um use the art of a razor with razor cutting.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Um, but you know, I also that was the era of like big chunky highlights, like, and we see that coming back. Oh, yes, we do. But like the Kelly Clarkson with the reds and the chunky blondes. And so I would venture to say that back then it was more about like bold and not the lived-in look.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yep. Um nowadays I feel like we're very like nonchalant, like the color's very much like organic and it's like it's natural color, but it's not the natural color. Right. It's like enhanced natural. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

And that was very much not a thing back then, unless you were a little bit older, but I would say like early 20s, like I was, like, that was the vibe. Everybody wanted this big, bold, like streaky, chunky, and like it was streaky. Yes. And so I feel like looking at it now and seeing that it's coming back in style, there's a part of me that I'm like, oh yay, but also a part of me that's like, oh cringe, you know, because it's like, okay, we already lived through that. And so it was very much like I felt there wasn't as much focus on the technique because you kind of had room for error because people wanted the stripey look. Yeah. Where now that's not so much a thing. So your technique is super important now. Um, so I would say like very much going for like that emo-y look was the vibe back in that day.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

I was gonna say, I feel like um, you know, the 90s, at least when I think of the 90s, I think of like two different aesthetics. I think of like the like super hyper pop like Britney Spears type, and then I also think of like the grunge. Yeah. So I feel like it was almost like in the early 2000s, it was almost like we're mixing the like we want to put this in your face and we want to be poppy, but we want it to still be kind of like alternative.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

And I think the perfect example of that, um, combining the two is like Christina Aguilera. No, literally. Her dirty video, like that was like the height of that. And she had the platinum blonde, yes, but she also had the red and the black.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

And I know that a lot of people would come in looking for that. And back then, for a normal person, not a celebrity, but a normal person, extensions weren't a thing then.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Right. So she had that look because she had extensions. And so somebody walking in off the street, they're like, Well, I want platinum blonde, but I want bright red and I want black. And it's like, okay, cool. And and right, I would say, like, the education that we had then, it was kind of like, yeah, just do it. But there was not education on like, hey, this is gonna bleed. Right, you know, and it's not gonna look right.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

So I think we all remember the first time we did like a color combo with blonde, and we're like, this is gonna be so great, and then we rinse it and we're like, oh no.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Right, like, why is it pink now? Why is the hair pink?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Why is it blue? Why is it purple? Yeah. Um, I feel like that um happened to me a lot, like whenever I was first trying. There was a point in my career where I was doing a little bit more fantasy hair, and I was like, maybe I might inch that direction. I obviously ended up not going in that direction, but I would do like yellows and light pinks and light greens and light blues, but with like a really rich, vivid like blue or green, and I'm like, why is it all bleeding? So it's like we all remember, you know, trying to figure out how to rinse that hair. Yeah. But I feel like, especially back then though, like you said, the education, like I wasn't doing hair in 2004, but I feel like from me seeing the industry now and the education that we have now, I feel like it's still not enough. And I feel like it's so much more now than it used to be. So I can only imagine back then a fresh 21, 22-year-old stylist coming into the industry, like, how do I rinse platinum silver hair with uh red and black hair dyeing? You know, like how do we figure that out? So I guess one of the questions I have is for you is like if that situation did come into your chair at the time, did you have resources to figure out how to do it, or was it kind of just like you would ask maybe like a mentor or a senior stylist that you were working with at the you know, at that time, and you kind of just were like at the disposal of their knowledge?

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah, I would say there was one person in the salon that I can recall um who he did kind of more like vivid-y type of colors. And you know, you would ask him, like, hey, how do I rinse this like without it bleeding? And like, of course, the answer was like, Oh, cool water, rinse till it's clear. But then I think not knowing the right way to educate my clients on how to do that at home, you know, yeah, it leaves the salon looking great, but then they're going to calling the salon a week later, like, why is my hair turning this color? Right. Um, so I would say like there wasn't as much education surrounding it back then as I think somebody now who wanted to do that would be able to have access to. Because, and people who have been in the industry the same amount of time or longer, they may hear this and be like, oh, maybe she doesn't remember well. But like what I remember of education at the time was back then we had to have in the state of Ohio, you had to take in-person classes. Right. So that whether that's going to a hair show or finding something. Um, but at a hair show, you're fighting to get into spots for a class. There wasn't specialized, individualized classes for a certain thing. It was like these big brands coming in and they're like, well, we want to teach you about our way, right? Not about overall and in general how to do something. It was like, this is our brand's way. So I feel like back then it was like, I just need to take a class. I don't care what class it is because I need to get my hours for my for my um CE so that I can renew my license. Where now it has shifted, and I would say specifically, probably since COVID, mostly the education requirements have shifted.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yes, they are.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

But now there's so many more opportunities for education. Yes. So if you have a niche that you want to go into before, there wasn't there weren't those niches.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

I'm almost able to research what like if you figure out what you want your vibe as a stylist to be and what you want like your quote unquote bread and butter services to be that you enjoy, you almost can search out that specific education so that you're able to get the knowledge that you need to do your specializations. I definitely think we probably more shifted towards specializing now than maybe what I remember even from when I started in the industry. Um and I know that you had mentioned um that basically you were like back then when you would go to these classes, it was like this is our way of doing it. It wasn't generalized, which is why a lot of times, like when I teach classes, I try to generalize it. I'm like, this is base color theory. This isn't theory based off of this line or this line. This is the color wheel is not changing. So we are going to use the color wheel to figure out what colors we need and how to formulate versus this brand says this and this and this and this. So hopefully, even when people come into our space and they take one of my classes, they're able to take what I teach them and they can apply it to any color line versus just what we use here, you know. Which I think that's one of the reasons why I like to teach it from that color theory standpoint versus like, oh, we carry this brand, I want to teach it based off of this, because I want people to be able to have the knowledge, period, and be able to have it be versatile, you know. Yeah. And I feel like you can research that now. But I feel like back then you probably couldn't, because at least when I started, you couldn't. Like in 2013, when I started in beauty's beauty, the beauty industry, I feel like it was very difficult. Like the industry's changed so much even since then. So I'm like, I can't, you couldn't find education, maybe a little bit if you really searched for it, but still nowadays I feel like I could TikTok anything.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Yes, absolutely. And that was something that I was gonna point out too. Like for folks who, whether you've been in the industry for a long time or you're thinking about getting into the industry, or you're brand new into the industry. And I I hate the term baby stylist, but like I do too. Yeah, like I just I don't I I think that that's kind of almost like degrading in a way. I agree. You know, so I but if you are a newer stylist who is just getting your feet wet, you know, yes, there are special specialized education classes that you can take, whether it's online or in person, that are very costly. But I think if you are a newer stylist or even a stylist who's like, hey, I don't want to spend a ton of money on education, I would say to those people, and I for myself even, there is so much good free education, whether it's Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, there is so much good free stuff out there. I know we try to like say, like, stay off your phone, stay off your phone. Use that to your benefit. If you're gonna be scrolling anyway, use it to your benefit and like watch somebody.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

And I know we haven't quite gotten to this yet, but you know, uh I'm somebody who I did step away from the industry for a while. And when I came back to the industry what three years ago now, um that's one of the things that got me really wanting to come back to it, yeah, was scrolling on my phone, and all of a sudden all this hair stuff is coming up, and I'm like, things are so different.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Like these transitions and the way that we can go from A to B now versus before, you know, it maybe didn't seem like we could do such transformations.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Yes, absolutely. And so I say to anyone, if you don't want to spend a ton of money, if you are newer and you don't have a ton to spend, that's okay. But use the resources that are out there because there is so many good resources.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yes, I feel like when I was starting out, I literally would research. And at the time, like Instagram and TikTok hadn't really popped off quite yet, which is showing, you know, my age, but I would YouTube everything and I would literally just type in like free it would be like education, how to how to cut hair, how to balayage, yeah, how to blonde. I learned how to balayage off of YouTube. And I feel like we forget that even if you're seasoned, even if you started and left, come back, even if you have been doing it for 30 years for three years, you can learn something from somebody. You know, we always say here all the time, like watch anybody here because we're all gonna do something and it's going to be our own version of it, and there's a reason why we do it that way, you know? And you can learn. There's things that I could learn from you from watching you, and vice versa. Um but I feel like one of the things that is really great in our industry is we have grown as stylists to be able to almost like we know that the education was hard to get. So us as stylists have been like, let's actually help each other out and figure out how we can teach each other. And I think that's great. Um, because I not to get into this over here, but I feel like as a whole, and I can't speak for all states, I can just speak for the state that we're in, but I don't feel like the standard for education is very high in our state. And I think that that's pretty uh universal across most states, but I don't live in those states, so I don't know. But I do think it's great that us as stylists, especially the seasoned ones, because as I start to creep up in some years myself, I can see I can see the value, and actually I have the experience to and the knowledge of oh, so ombre is tiptoeing back? Okay, hate ombre. That was like the biggest thing when I started, right? But the thing is, is I live through it, so I have the experience and I know how to do it. And so if somebody were to come into me, you know, like a younger stylist, again, I don't like the term baby stylist very well, but like a younger stylist in the industry is saying, Oh, like look at this picture, and it's like a really blended ombre. It's not quite a balayage, but it's like you can truly see the multiple, you know, layers of color. It's like, wow, I'm seeing the industry kind of come back around. It's full circle. And so I do think it's cool once you start creeping up in those years of experience. It's like, well, actually, no, I do have something I can teach. I have experience I can showcase. So I think it's great that us as stylists have been like kind of clocking the state boards a little bit and being like, your education requirement is way too low.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Yeah, when the only education requirements are education out there. Yeah, I mean, when the only requirement for continuing education for the state board is sanitization and like like human trafficking, which that's great, we need to know that it's so important. But like, if that's all we're doing, we're staying the same. And if you're not taking it upon yourself, you're not growing with the industry. And, you know, I to kind of go back to something you said about how being in this salon, it's always like, oh, this person's doing this, I'm gonna watch, or go watch this person, you know. Specifically, like I've had several people stand and watch me do a Bob haircut. I love a Bob haircut. I feel like that's one of my strongest haircuts I have. I love it. And I love talking about how to do it and how to do it correctly. But, you know, for me, coming into this salon three years ago, being out of a salon for several years while my kids were growing up and, you know, taking a step back for my family, I have learned so much. And I was a seasoned stylist. I was behind the chair for 12 years before I took some time off. And I was a seasoned stylist. And the amount of stuff that I have learned, not from doing outside education, I mean, I've learned a lot from that too, but from watching, yeah, from watching you, from watching Emily, from watching Kaylee. Like there are so many people in this salon that everybody has a different strength.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

And there's something to learn from everybody. And even talking about the color wheel and color theory, we touched on that in cosmetology school. That was 20 plus years ago for me.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Attention all beauty schools. Why are we spending 0.5 seconds on the color wheel? Right. I'm very confused.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

No, seriously, because that is the base of what we do. Unless you just want to be a cut, a haircutter, which there are people that that's all they want to do is haircutting, and that's good, fine, great. But if you want to be any type of a colorist, learn, memorize, study, dive into that color wheel, because that is going to be the foundation of your coloring. And I think there is not enough emphasis on that in this industry.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

So let me ask you a question. So when you're thinking about your school experience 2004, I'm glad I don't have to do it again. Yes. And then from what you've heard currently about Beauty School Now, do you think your experience in comparison to what you're hearing the experiences now was better or worse than what you're hearing?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

I I think some things were better. Um, but I definitely think some things are the same or maybe worse. Um, I just hear some of these girls that are currently in school um or just out of school, and the way that they talk about how the school is ran and being like, well, there's a hard cut. And if your clients got not done, guess what? You gotta send them home with color on their hair. Like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Isn't that insane?

SPEAKER_02 20:37

That's insane. It is insane.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

I would say the worst. Would that have happened when you were in school?

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Um, no, I think they, but they were very strict on when they cut off walk-ins. Um, so it was very much a like, hey, we're not doing a color starting past, I think it was five o'clock. But also when I was in cosmetology school, we went to school till nine o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

So like I had two like nine to nine. Um, noon to nine. Noon to nine. So if it was we had two late nights that we had to do and it was noon to nine, and then we had Mondays off. We had to do every Saturday. Um, and then you had your like eight to four or eight to four thirty. But I would say probably the worst thing I experienced when I was in cosmetology school is like I mentioned, my papa was a barber. He taught me, he took me into his barber shop on a Saturday afternoon, had a few of his regulars come in and say, Hey, I'm gonna teach my granddaughter. Can you be like a model for her?

SPEAKER_00 21:29

What a great opportunity. Oh, seriously. I may say, because that I think I just feel like that is such a good example of if you watch people, you literally like our 50% of our job is learning. And if you are able to watch anybody take the opportunity because you never know what you could pick up from them.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

And he did like he would do one side of the head, and then he'd say, Okay, now you need to do what I did. So I would watch him do one side and then he would like stand behind me and like say, Okay, you need to do this. This is how you, you know, scissor over calm, clipper over calm, tape or fade, all of that. And so when I I remember doing that, and I remember coming back to school the next week or so and doing a men's cut. And my teacher um he looked at me and he was like, We haven't taught you men's cuts that well. Like, what do you where did you learn that? And I was like, Well, my papa, you know, and I explained it. So then after that, it was like anybody who had a men's cut, they'd be like, Devin, can you go stand with them and tell them what to do? And I looked at them and I said, I'm not a teacher. Yep. I'm still a student. And they're like, Well, but you're the best one at men's cuts right now. Yeah. And I said, Okay, well, are you gonna give me money off of my tuition?

SPEAKER_00 22:48

No, really.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Like, seriously. And they said, Absolutely not. And I said, Then I'm not doing it.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

And then after that, like I would get crap every time. If I said no, they would like be really mean to me, and then they'd be like, Well, you're gonna get written up. Why? Because I'm not doing your job for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yes, I uh really resonate with that because when I was in school, I was very young. I started when I was 17, and I was a little bit older than the group of kids that I was with at the time. So a lot of the kids I was in school with were 15 or 16, which I know that that's one or two years.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

But that's a difference.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

It's a really big difference when you're 17 years old and you're really trying to take your schooling very seriously, and you have people who are not, but that's a different story. My point with um that I wanted to get to with understanding where you're coming from is is I took it very seriously. I would perform a skill and it was done pretty well for a student, obviously, and they'd be like, How did you like figure that out? How did you learn that? I'm like, I'm literally after school going home and YouTubing how to do this. Like I wanted how to do this, right? So I remember there was one day where it was like we did um classic stacked bob, you know, and it was like my teachers had come from the era of like 80s, 90s, right? So like the stacked bob was like it, right? So I really and to this day I would say I'm pretty decent at them. I don't love doing them, but I'm pretty good at them. I could pull one out if I need to. And I just remember at the time my teachers would be like, Can you like show them some tips and tricks? And I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

No, it's not my job. I'm in school. Yeah, I'm here to learn too. Yeah. Teach me how to do things. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Like, you know, so I feel that, and I I totally understand where you're coming from with that. So it's interesting how maybe, you know, that's uh something that really hasn't changed a lot. And you know, from 2003 to when I was in school in 2013, that didn't really change. And then now I would assume that probably is still happening.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Oh, yeah. I mean, if you talk to, you know, we have Molly who just got out of school, um, you know, listening to them, like it hasn't changed.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

And there's a part of me that wonders, and I maybe I don't know if you think about this, but there's a part of me that wonders because I meet people and when they say, like, what do you do? And I'm like, oh, I'm a hairstylist, and they're like, Oh, I went to cosmetology school too back in the day. And I just wonder sometimes, like, if these schools don't take the education as seriously, because there are a lot of people, I would venture to say probably 60% of people that go to cosmetology school don't end up making it their career. Yeah. So I think to me, I just feel like maybe some of these schools don't take teaching the students as serious as they should, because I think a lot of them have the mindset, maybe the teachers have the mindset of, you know what, they they're not gonna follow through with this anyway, so we're not gonna take it as seriously. And I also, you know, there's not a lot of, in my opinion, I don't think there's a ton of requirement on what it takes to be an instructor at one of these schools. And I think that needs to change too.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

I would agree. I I really want to kind of maybe dive into what you just said because it was a point of view that you mentioned that I don't know if I've actually really thought of. And maybe I have, but I think in this moment I'm connecting some dots. So what I was gonna say was is I feel like a lot of times the beauty industry or beauty school industry, if that makes sense, I wonder if it's not really improved a ton is because maybe we aren't taking it as serious enough. But what you had said was is you had said it's almost as if the impression from the teachers or the school is we're gonna have all of these people enroll, but they're not gonna take it serious, so we're not gonna take it serious. So I wonder if it's kind of like a joint issue where it's like the people come in and they don't take it serious, so that makes that causes issues because then the standard is I'm showing up. But then on the flip side, I feel like I don't know if the school should be more strict or I don't know like what the answer is. But like I'm seeing what you're saying. Yeah. And because I do think in general, because people don't take the industry that serious, outside of people outside of the industry don't take it that serious. So then the people who come into it, they have a hard time taking it serious. So then when it's like coming to education, with the people who should be taking it the most serious in our industry, they feel like maybe they don't need to because everyone's saying it isn't that important when newsflash, the beauty industry is one of the biggest industries in the world. So that's interesting, that point of view, because I've not actually thought about that in that perspective before. Yeah. So maybe we all need to be taking it more seriously.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yes. And I I I'm probably gonna get some hate for this, but hairstylist influencers, can we normalize talking about the nitty-gritty? What does it take to be successful in this industry? Yes, Instagram, I I want to say this and I'm going to repeat it. Instagram and social media is a highlight reel. It is a highlight reel. It is not real life. Yes. So I think that folks who have been in the industry for a while, if you have a platform where you have these new stylists following you because they look at what you're doing and yes, showing them the positives and what can come from the beauty industry, I think that's a great thing. But let's be real about it.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Let's talk about the hard work that it takes. Let's talk about the hours that it takes to put in to build your clientele. Because without your clients, you are nothing.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

And I think that sometimes the Shout out to the clients. Yes, we love our clients. I love my clients. I have amazing clients. And but I think that that is a thing that people don't think about.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

This goes to all industries. This is everybody's job, everybody's line of work. If you do not put the work in, then the work will not be successful.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

I think it's the same mindset. If you're an athlete, if you in any career, right? Like anything. If you're on a health and fitness journey, like anything that you do in life, if you do not put the work and the effort into it, you are not gonna get as much out of it as you could.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

And here's my thing. I am not somebody who believes that you should not have a proper balance in your life. Absolutely. You absolutely should. Sure. What I want to say is is if you are not loving where your career is at at the moment, whether it be you're not working enough, you don't have enough clients in your chair, you're not charging appropriately, you're not doing the services you want, whatever it is that's making you unhappy in your career, what will help fix that is you have to be available. Yes. If you are not available to learn, if you're not available to take an extra client at an awkward hour, if you're not available to post on social media, if you're not available to take a class, whatever the case may be, I think one of the things that just maybe gets under my skin a little bit as somebody who is in the industry, is I do think there is a fine line between overworking yourself and you know having that work. But the thing is, is I think a lot of people look at it as I'm not working outside my hours, I'm not taking a class outside my hours, I'm not gonna post outside of my hours of work. But the thing is, is if you want to be busy, you have to be busy. You do, yeah. Like you have to like you have to be available. And I think one of the things that just kind of maybe gets under my skin a little. Thank you guys so much for listening to the Rooted at West Oak podcast, and we will see you guys on the next one.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Bye.